EcoSphere
$99
Pros
- Truly closed system
- Contains both flora and fauna
- No maintenance
Cons
- Average lifespan of 2-5 years, but can be longer
- Original manufacturer went out of business
Update Dec. 27, 2022:
SelfSustainingEcosystem.com does not manufacture Ecospheres. We cannot recharge your Ecosphere.
The company that produces Ecospheres, Ecosphere Associates, went out of business in early 2022. I was able to establish contact with the previous owners to find out what happened. The business closed due to increasing pressure from the COVID-19 pandemic interrupting supply chains and recent legislation in Hawaii that limits the capture and sale of wild marine life, including Opae’ula shrimp.
Update Dec. 30, 2023:
I found a manufacturer on Amazon selling a product that is identical to Ecospheres called “Ecosmos”.
There was a gap in the market for the last couple years that seems to have been filled by a new company selling a functionally and aesthetically identical product. I haven’t purchased one myself so I can’t vouch for it with 100% certainty, but here’s a link if you want to check them out for yourself. They even sell the exact same ecosphere size variations. Here is the small round “Ecosmos” ecosphere.Update Feb 2024
Previously, I declined all requests for Ecosphere refreshes and maintenance because SelfSustainingEcosystem.com is not the manufacturer.
However, I am now leading the science development of a mission to send an Ecosphere to the International Space Station to monitor the impact of the space environment on a self sustaining aquatic ecosystem. In pursuing this, I’ve established a mature Opae’ula colony and gained quite a lot of experience with this ecosystem.
I am now offering Ecosphere recharges within the continental US for $250 USD. Yes, this is expensive, it’s intended to artificially limit the number of recharge requests I receive. Recharging ecospheres is not meant to be a business for me, but a way to spread awareness and passion for closed ecological systems. I intend to publish a video detailing the process to make the knowledge available to everyone.
My Ecosphere recharge service is more of a rebuild – I will empty your container and refill it with an improved version of the ecosystem that we use for research (the major change is that it includes a living Chaetomorpha macroalgae instead of the dead Gorgonia sea fan decoration).
Purchasing an Ecosphere in 2024
The original Ecosphere is no longer available for purchase from the original manufacturer (Ecosphere Associates, located in Tucson, AZ).
However, it should be clear that there was no secret recipe – the Ecosphere is so successful as a self sustaining ecosystem because of the Halocaridina rubra, or Opae’ula, which are extraordinarily resilient and long-lived compared to other shrimp. The rest of the components of the Ecosphere are unremarkable – the sphere has a removable plug to fill the aquarium, the water is a brackish mix made from marine salts, and the microbial/algae population is recruited from an existing aquarium.
Given the simplicity of the system, it’s very possible to make your own Ecosphere – the guides on this site can help you in setting up your own aquatic jarrarium. Alternatively, new vendors have cropped up online selling Ecosphere knock offs. I haven’t purchased them, so I can’t vouch for them, but they look pretty identical. Let me know your experience if you get on!
Recharging an Ecosphere in 2024
Update April 12, 2024:
I began offering Ecosphere recharges a couple months ago and was quickly overwhelmed with requests. I am happy to see all of the enthusiasm for these lovely ecosystems, but it’s more than I can handle on an ongoing-basis. I’ve set up an ecosphere recharge waitlist that I hope will be a good compromise.
You can find the details of the service and join the waitlist by submitting this Google Form link.
Original Blog Article and Ecosphere Review:
The EcoSphere is the most recognizable of ecosystem-related products. It’s the poster child for self-sustaining ecosystems in the public’s mind.
And, truthfully, it’s one of very few products that actually does meet the standards to be truly self-sustaining. It is materially-closed. The only input is energy from light and ambient temperature.
Even more impressive, the EcoSphere achieves these criteria while being a successful commercial product. Their website boasts of having sold almost a million of the little globes. It’s easy to understand why: they’re not prohibitively expensive, they require virtually no maintenance, and they are actually interesting. Anyone could toss some green, slimy algae in a ball and it would stay green for many years. Having active, macroscopic critters in the form of shrimp is what makes that EcoSphere truly unique.
That being said, there is some contention surrounding the EcoSphere – namely, the fate of the shrimp.
Halocaridina rubra, often referred to by its Hawaiian name “Opae Ula” or Red Volcano Shrimp, is an incredible little crustacean. They can tolerate the extreme conditions found around, well, volcanoes. They can survive in tide pools, which are generally harsh environments. These shrimp even live up to 20 years, despite being less than an inch long.
This makes them an excellent candidate for an EcoSphere… because it is also, unfortunately, a harsh environment. Ecosystems with a small volume are very sensitive to change, be it temperature, light, or chemical levels. Leaving your EcoSphere on a shelf with too much sun for even one day could prove lethal if the water gets too warm.
While light levels can be controlled, the chemical profile of the closed system is beyond tampering. The most common failure point for an aquatic ecosystem is ammonia toxicity – as waste is generated and as organisms die, they decompose into ammonia, which needs to be converted into nitrite and then nitrate so it can be eaten by plants or algae. You can imagine in a tiny ecosystem like this one, a single shrimp dying is a significant amount of the biomass in the system. Introducing all of that ammonia into the system at once can cause a toxic shock, interrupting or destroying the microbes that are needed to convert it into less toxic substances. Small systems like the Ecosphere walk a fine line trying to balance life and death to avoid being overwhelmed.
That is the primary argument against Ecospheres – you are jailing shrimp in a tiny volume of water that may or may not slowly choke them with their own waste. It’s very difficult to tell beforehand if that will be the case, as ecosystems are generally too complicated to be replicated reliably. And since the system is closed, you can’t measure the water parameters or adjust them.
In my opinion, the bigger issue here is that many Opae Ula are wild-caught. They’re incredibly hard to breed in captivity, as hobbyists could tell you, so the shrimp used in the original EcoSpheres were harvested from the islands of Hawaii. The bottom left shrimp in the picture below has fertilized eggs visible, but the babies never arrived!
Is wild-caught shrimp sustainable? I’m not sure. We’ve witnessed the perils of over-fishing many other times, though. Wild-caught stock is the seedy under-belly of the aquarium trade, and I’d rather not support it.
Apologies if this review sounds scathing – I don’t hate the EcoSphere. I actually quite love them. In fact, I am sending one to the international space station as part of my Master’s research on closed ecological systems! Check out the details here.
You could always make a jarrarium yourself (for cheaper), but not everyone wants to do that. If an EcoSphere sparks in a child a love of science, or convinces an adult to care about conservation, then its good will far outweigh any harm.
We have one that was given to godson 19 years ago and I just noticed that the shrimp was still alive. And it had belonged to a couple who’d had it for a couple years before giving it to Alek.
That is insane! Gotta love those shrimp!
I have two shrimp left. I received them as a gift when I lived in my previous home. I’ve lived in my current home for 19 years. I’ve probably had them over 21 years.
So amazing!
I bought one for my mom that lasted over 10+ years. I got her a new one last xmas 2021 but unfortunately the shrimp dies right away (??) and now I am unable to reach the company 🙁
What a bummer, but now I know I’m not alone
Purchased ecosphere 7 years ago for my granddaughter. 3 red shrimps.. last one died 5/11/23… Sad 😔 day..
Mine is also still going after seven years. One shrimp left.,.
I have two ecosphere 30 years old one is 4 years old the 30 year old has a number on the bottom 177250 just wandering if it’s the olders spare out the one shrimp still going strong
Ours was a gift 7-8 yrs ago. The final shrimp died between Christmas 2023 and the new year. I think when it got down to three shrimp is when the eco balance got too skewed . . . Some friends made a point to see the shrimp when they visited. I miss ’em!
I own a medium size ecosphere. I bought many throughout the years and have given them his gifts. I understand that this company is no longer a business but I can’t bring myself to throwing this ecosphere that no longer is sustaining Life in the trash. Any suggestions?
I have my empty ecosystem and it’s actually beautiful and I won’t throw mine away. The algae and moss still grows and that is a living ecosystem.
Me too! I got mine around 2009. Last one died 6 months ago. It was sad to see one all by itself for the past 5 years.
Im thinking of repurposing it. If your turn it around, there is a hole enclosed. Im going to open it up one day and clean the inside and add new shrimps. I will need to get a stand with light to keep it in place since mine is the pointy cylindrical kind. And the opening will now be at yhe top and I can feed them extra food.
My mother gave me an ecosphere 15 years ago and not long after my boss dropped something on it and broke the top. My coworker made a top out of a cup and even drew pictures on the inside for the little shrimp to see. My mother passed away 10 years ago and my little shrimp friend is still going strong. I call him my Mom shrimp and he is a tiny connection to my Mom.
Thanks! U’ve inspired me to give my shrimp less sphere more sunlight.
So very sad to hear this company has gone out of business!! We are grateful for them. Ecospheres have stimulated curiosity, raised ecological awareness, and piqued the interest of so many people. Such a gentle product can also improve compassion toward living creatures.
Our shrimp was purchased twenty years ago this spring. We keep it in the shade and try to keep the lighting and sleep cycles natural. We have noticed it still seems active with no obvious signs of senescence.
As far as this product somehow being immoral — what nonsense! In the wild, these shrimp have a hard life, full of fear. Their lifespan would likely be measured in minutes or hours before they are eaten. Humans are not the only creatures to experience something like happiness and I’d like to think that ours has been far happier than it would be in the “wild.” Nature is not always pleasant, as our ancestors knew better than we do.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I largely agree with you, my views on the Ecosphere have changed quite a bit since I originally wrote this article. Certainly it’s a more stable environment, as evidenced by most of their natural range being developed over in the last couple decades. A good indicator of comfort in caged animals is the range of behaviors they display in comparison to their free-range counterparts. I can’t say that ecosphere Halocaridina rubra are as active as aquarium H. rubra with more space, but they definitely don’t display a lot of stress reactions in my experience either.
Also I’d be a real hypocrite to hate on Ecospheres when I am currently working on a space mission to send an ecosphere to the International Space Station next year. Check it out here!
Today we found our last shrimp named Shrimpy had died. It was part of our family for near 20 years. Been part of our boys lives for 15 years of those years. RIP Shrimpy, you are missed, which means you are not forgotten.
NJM, I am sorry for your loss 🙁 RIP Shrimpy…
I have an EcoSphere that is almost 24 years old. There is one shrimp left and we call him Mr. Shrimpy. Mr Shrimpy has been alone for over 10 years now but he seems veryhappy. Just yesterday I took a video of him eating algae from a stick. ‘Twill be a sad day when Mr Shrimpy is gone…
We just celebrated our shrimp’s 28th birthday! We got him/her for a Christmas present, so we don’t know how old he/she was beforehand. Our neighbor’s little kids come over every Christmas and sing Happy Birthday to him/her and put the pod by a mirror so he can celebrate his birthday with another shrimp. Very sweet!
yep i have one from 1998-99 One shrimp going strong 24+ yrs
I was given one as a gift by a former student in 2014 and despite very little attention from me in recent years, the ecosystem sits in my bedroom and the shrimp are still alive.
Wow, that’s pretty incredible! I love to hear stories like this. My professor has about 7 such gifts, though only one is still kickin’ these days
13 years and going. Just noticed we are down to one shrimp. We’ve had 2 for the past 5 years. Just don’t mess with them and they live. Don’t use the magnet to clean. Let them clean it.
Agreed. The magnet stirs up too much debris.
I had an ecosphere for nine years with my beloved Max being the only shrimp in there. I loved him and took him to different rooms in the morning and night. And even on vacations with me. He recently passed away and now I want another one but am afraid they won’t live long
I did have my shrimps for more than 16 years. A lot of comments along the way. Also provided myself with therapy time just by staring at it.
I’m trying to find EcoSphere Enterprises, to re-shrimp my globe. Did they go out of business? Their website and phone number doesn’t work.
Hey Bryce, yeah, I think you’re probably right. My site has received loads of emails from people mistaking me for Ecosphere Associates. So much so that I’ve tried to find them myself and haven’t been able to get in touch.
I had 3 shrimp and now down to 2. But these two have lived at least 9 years! I don’t have an exact date when I got the Ecosphere in Atlanta, but I lived there 5 years and now in NC for another 5-1/2 years! I love these little guys!
I was given an ecosphere 7 years ago by a friend and he had bought it 3 years before that, so it’s 10 years old now. It originally had 3 shrimp, he said, but was down to 1 when I first saw it. But Shrimpy is still with us and has moved with me through 2 job changes. He has sat now on 4 desks, including our computer desk at home between jobs. I thought he was way past his expiration date, but it sounds like maybe not! 🙂
John I also call my last shrimp shrimpy. 8yrs for me.
My cats were fighting and knocked our ecosphere off the table. It has broken. We had 2 shrimps. One has died. I was able to put the living shrimp in a bowl with some of the remaining water, rocks and the sea fan. How can I keep him alive?
Hey Patrick, thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. That’s too bad to hear, it was a cool thing. All the best!
Mine last shrimp just died after almost 10 years. When I bought this in 2012, it had a note that said I can send it back for a recharge. I still have the padded box but no idea where to send it. Anyways, I was impressed
Will there be any in stock soon?
That seems unlikely, since the manufacturer of Ecospheres has shut its doors.
What nooo!!! <:C i was going to buy one of the shrimps for my parents for Xmas :C :C :C
My ecosphere bottom cracked and is leaking water. Little dude is down to 2” of water. Is there a way I can refill and seal the globe myself?
I was having the same issue and am looking at what type of water to add fresh or salt so far it seems to be salt water, but I am worried I kill the last two guys I have it has been over ten years.
Opae ula live in brackish water and, generally speaking, can tolerate a wide range of salinity levels.
The best case scenario would be to replace the missing volume with salt water you have mixed yourself:
– use distilled or RO water as the base
– mix in marine salt (such as instant ocean brand) until you reach a salinity level of 1.010 (you can pick up a hydrometer to measure salinity for a couple of bucks)
You could also remove your shrimp and place it in just about any other vessel, though be sure to include as much of the original material as possible.
I had one years back that had one survive 8 years.
Hello,
I have had a globe for at least 6 years. The last shrimp has finally died. Do you have an idea of how I can responsibly get rid of the globe?
Hello Patrick; my last shrimp died about 2 weeks ago. I had been watching him/her? and sadly expecting it. But then I also noticed a few babies swimming all around, and now I can see even more. They are too tiny for me to make out their shape, but they must be shrimp? I’ve had this globe about 2 and a half years. Is there anything I can do to help them survive? I haven’t moved the globe. It’s near a window with indirect light and shutters that are closed part of the day. No drafts. Thanks, Maria
Yup, it sounds like the momma was survived by her offspring! You shouldn’t have to do anything, there isn’t a lot you could do even if it was unsealed, but a portion of them will hopefully survive and mature after a few months. They have several larval life stages to go through before they settle down and look and act like the shrimp you are familiar with.
Hi Patrick; I looked up the date I had last contacted you- it was September 2022, to say that my last shrimp had died and that I’d noticed lots of tiny babies swimming around. I’ve been waiting for them to grow, but they are still the same size as last September and still very active. Their size is too small to detect their shape exactly. What is going on with them?
Hello again Maria! Thanks for following up. This is a pretty interesting case. Since you’ve described them as too small to really make out, very active, and not visibly growing, I’m starting to think maybe you don’t actually have baby Halocaridina rubra. In the last 6 or 8 months, baby shrimp would have molted a dozen times or more, growing noticeably larger.
Are the critters you see about the size of a pinhead, transparent to whitish, and scoot around in a jerky motion? Those might be copepods or ostracods, another type of crustacean sometimes called seed shrimp. They’re present in most aquatic ecosystems as detritivores – they break down decomposing matter.
Good question. I suppose you could recycle it as its mostly glass; I suspect the seal won’t pose an obstacle.
I have an Ecosphere that I bought at SeaWorld San Diego back ( the largest they had at the time) in 1995, making it 27+ years old. It started with some shrimp and snails, but the snails have been gone for years. I reached out to Ecoshpete Associates a few years ago and they checked my serial number and said it was one of the oldest ones they know of. To this day it has always had 10 – 20 shrimp in the ecosystem. I love watching them to this day. They have been in 4 houses and, 5 jobs. Sad to hear that they are gone
Wow, what an incredible story!!! I had heard that some of the first versions had snails in them, bummer to hear they didn’t make it. I guess they couldn’t reproduce in that environment. Thanks for sharing 🙂
I bought a small ecosphere (pod shape) back in the mid 1990s and one of the shrimps lived 13 years. It may have lived longer if given the chance, but the person to whom I entrusted my little pod tossed it while I was away for a year. I would love to get another one.
Shoot, that’s a bummer to hear. I’m afraid there is no real chance of getting a new, authentic ecosphere. There are similar products you could buy, however, or you can get some Opae ula shrimp and make your own!
I am actually trying too locate the original company that I purchased from. My contact phone number is not working! My information is still the same; please contact me about recharging my ecosphere!
I have two. Neither of them lasted a year. In fact the longest life was about 3 months. I was very disappointed. I feel like this should work but for me it was a scam.
Mary Andrews
Hello,
I have had a small shrimp ecosystem for about 4 years now. It’s a small plastic tank rather than the sealed glass ones. It had 2 shrimp originally but the first one died after 2 years. Over time the water in my ecosystem has halved by evaporation. Can I safely add more water to help prolong the ecosystem? Would deionised water be suitable?
Any advice is appreciated- thank you!
Yep! Deionized or simply distilled water should be all you need. Be careful not to exceed the original volume by too much or it will become too “freshwater” instead of the brackish that they require.
I just realized mine has died. I was given it Chrismas of 1999. It has a 5 digit serial number. I used to email Chris with the company every few years to update him. Sad to hear they went out of business, sadder still my shrimp died. 23 years, more than half my life…
My daughter bought us one over 10 years ago and its still going. We watch and check on the little guy frequently. The unit comes with a magnetic based scrub if the sphere becomes cloudy. No direct light. No issue with waste build up or other toxicity issues that I can tell. My son is a microbiologist and he said the plant will use harmful nitrogen biproducts, and the plant, needs nitrogen, will convert it into useful nitrogen products. As a aerospace scientist myself I find it truly fascinating how this ecosystem continues to survive.
I realized my shrimp Thor died today after roughly 10 years. Very sad to find out they’re no longer in business.
Ringo is going on 12 years. Unfortunately we have lost John, George and Paul.
Shrimpie will be 12 in May. I think we are either super lucky or we happen to have just the right mix of light and temperature for the system.
Has anyone found a comparable product (please link here)
Heya Dan. It is a bummer that the manufacturer is gone, but there are still ways to enjoy the ecosphere ecosystem. You can find guides to creating Opae ula aquariums online and make one yourself. Otherwise, the only similar product to the Ecosphere that I know about is this one:
https://amzn.to/3Xjw4An
I purchased my Ecosphere 11 years ago before I discovered it might inhumane. There was an old endorsement from Carl Sagan on their website at the time.
All but one shrimp (named Shrimpie) died early on, but Shrimpie is still going strong. Will be 12 years in May since he/she arrived.
Is there any company that refilss ecosphere? I have two and my shrimp have died. Yfuld9@aol.com
My lone shrimp has been living in his safe, protected environment for over 20 years now. Sadly, his brothers and sisters have passed on, but he is still going strong.
Inhumane? I don’t think so. Do you think that this shrimp would have survived in the wild for over 20 years?
Sad to say our last shrimp is gone. Originally received in Dec. 2005
Bummed.
My son got his EcoSphere for his high school graduration in 2001 from his sister. There were 4 shrimp to start with , but 3 died withend the first year. The Sphere has been at my house since then in the same spot. The old fellow is still going strong!
I have one that was put in a drawer at work for about 2 years and when I opened the drawer to clean it out, the shrimp are still alive. I’ve had it for at least 15 years. I understand these guys are long-lived if in a stable situation, but how did they survive for 2 years in the dark? I’m even more impressed with these now.
Our ecosphere was purchased at the museum of natural history almost 10 years ago. There used to be 6. Now there is one. Big Tim. He is still trucking alone at the tender age of 10. Love that lil guy
Here’s to Big Tim!!
I had a small oval with four shrimp for about three years in Houston but it broke during our move to the Seattle area😢. I got a large oval for Xmas 2021 with about eight shrimp but the sunlight exposure is so different up here and we have skylights. It only takes a second too. I lost some February 2022 because of one sunny day and had been so careful since. I have been moving it around since I got it because of the design of my windows and the difference in latitude. I just lost the last one. About two weeks ago two got a beam of sun for about a minute but it was too late and the last one was fine for days but I think there was too much debris he couldn’t survive. It’s an ekkk🤮o system now. Very swampy and murky but I am keeping it and keeping a😍 on it. I’m glad I came here I learned a lot. Thank you!
I had mine for close to 4 years. Does anybody know if they reproduce?
I really want another one!
Had it 8 years and needed to get it a lil more Sun. But I forgot about it!
Overnight chill killed shrimp!
Hate myself for forgetting as he/they weee around for years.
Anyone know where to get another?
I Just dug up my old original shipping container so I can mail it back and get my ecosphere refilled since all the shrimp have died. I am sad to hear that the company is no longer around. If anybody knows of a company that I can refill it with, please let me know.
Our shrimp “Chicken” has died after 15 years. When we got the ecosphere in 2008 it had 3 shrimp in it. Sadly two of them died within the first year, leaving “Chicken” as the only survivor for the last 14 years of his ecosphere life.
We have ours over 12 years. Half the water is gone. I had moved and forgot about it in a box for about 4 months…during the winter in our garage…they survived! I couldn’t believe it. Theh have sat on my bathroom counter all this time, the oldest pets we’ve had!
Bought the oval from ecosphere nearly 6 years ago. Three of the original four died quickly. But the last one still soldiers on bravely.
I assume it’s a female. I’ve heard this species is sometimes parthenogenetic. Long after any potential mate could have impregnated her, she was producing what I assume were tiny offspring. But none ever seemed to grow bigger than maybe 1/2 millimeter.
She stopped doing that maybe two or three years ago. But she’s still there! My 6-year old grandson calls her “baby weenie.”
I love hearing these stories!
I am pretty sure Halocaridina rubra is not parthenogenic, though some other “shrimp” like brine shrimp can be. You were probably seeing microcrustaceans (or zooplankton) such as copepods or ostracods, also known as seed shrimp. They are a common part of aquatic ecosystems, but hard to notice unless you’re looking for them!
I have an ecosphere which needs refurbished. Do you do that? I need a box to send it back if you do. Please contact me . Thank you!
Hey guys, just wanted to say this one of the most unique gifts out there! My sister got one for my 21st birthday and one is still alive. I just turned 38, not sure how old they were before I was lucky enough to take care of them… but they are still going strong 17 years later.
All my shrimp died and i was wondering if there is anyway to recharge it? Can you do it yourself?
My ecosphere is approximately 10 years old! I’m down to 1 shrimp and the ball gets a little dirty sometimes. But it’s still awesome! I was looking into getting a recharge. Sorry they closed up shop.
I Have 3 shrimp going strong after I purchased the sphere at auction 30 years ago for $25. The number on bottom is 416396. So sorry to hear the shrimp outlived the parent company.
Originally had 4 shrimp—Sun, Moon, Star, and Frank. Still have 3. Will be 8 years in a few months. They’re amazing.
what to do with an enclosed EcoSpher when shrimp die
We’ve had our last shrimp for about 8 years.. the other day I accidentally broke the glass and Goldie was swimming on our counter before I scooped her up and some of the water and contents and put it in a cup. I can see the water is starting to evaporate little by little. What can I do? I’m not sure what I can put her in if I can get the water right. My daughter would be very upset if we lost her 😥
Buy instant ocean marine salt, distilled water to mix it with, and a hydrometer to measure salinity. Mix water that has a salinity identical to your remaining water and add it to the shrimp’s container. Voila!
I was given an ecosphere in 2008-ish, when I was a teacher. It had a healthcare company name on it but it was the OG ecosphere. My ex boyfriend knocked it off the shelf in 2015 🙁 4 shrimp were left. I could never find a reasonably priced on again. I just now said “I’m gonna do it!” And they don’t have them anymore.
I have an EcoSphere we bought in May 2012. One little dude left. Is it possible to introduce more shrimp safely? There’s a lot of algae in there and would to have some more shrimp in there helping clean up. But not sure you can “recharge” while there’s still something alive in there, or if that will kill it and/or the new introductions?
Today while looking to buy another two Ecospheres, we saw that our last shrimp, “Shrimpy”, had died. He was over 10 years old and we loved seeing him on our office desk. 🙁
I lost my directions, could you please send me a copy via email or text? Please
There were a bunch of shrimp, can’t remember how many I started with but vast majority passed away first couple years. I have had the last shrimp named Garfield for over 8 years now. He’s travelled with me on a relocation by car across the country and back. I shook the crap out of the ecosphere when i couldn’t find him and suddenly he appeared the following day as if he never left. This lil guy is incredible. Sad to hear that the company went out of business.